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Hell no I wouldn't get over it. Carter is right about many things when it comes to Israel and Palestine.

Yes he is, Dusty. I'll never understand how we've been able to jsut shrug off what's happened to Palestinians.

You guys are obviously capable of swallowing the worst bullshit. Why not try a little truth? Such as:

.Most "Palestinian refugees" in 1948 were not refugees. Many moved to the West Bank and East Jerusalem to seize property of displaced Jews. The majority of the rest moved to make way for Arab armies intent on ehtnic cleansing Jews

.In any event the number is about the same as the number of Jews expelled from Arab countries where they had lived for generations and had only Israel to go

.Palestinians are probably the most cosseted people in history. They have the longest lives and the highest birth rate in the Arab world

.Palestinians are the first people in history whose "refugee" status is hereditary. Officially passed on from father to son.

I could go on. Why don't you make the effort to learn just a few of the basic facts before you comment on this issue. Especially before you comment on a neonazi, racist, 9/11 conspiracy theorist site like Damian Lataan's. Or perhaps you are in that mould too?

Why am I not surprised by your insinuation that I'm of the neonazi racist "mould"?

Goeff, you may not like the facts, but the fact is that Israel refused to allow Palestinians who fled their homes and land to return to them, in violation of UN resolutions.

I love your use of the word "moved," by the way.

And as for the pampered Palestinians:

* Refugees in Lebanon - this is from current news: (http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/05/21/lebanon.camps/):
"Today, all 12 official refugee camps in the region known as the Lebanon Field suffer from serious problems: No proper infrastructure, overcrowding, poverty and unemployment. The Lebanon Field has the highest percentage of Palestinian refugees who are living in abject poverty and who are registered with the agency's "special hardship" program."

* From the UN, in 2003: (http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2003/gaspd274.doc.htm): "However, major challenges to [UNRWA]’s operations were hampering its ability to assist Palestine refugees, some 60 per cent of whom were now living below the poverty line."

* A more recent study on poverty among Palestinian refugees (http://www.un.org/unrwa/refugees/camp-profiles.html): 71% of Palestinian refugees live in extreme poverty.

* BTW, according to the World Bank, 60% of Palestinians in the Palestinian territories lived in poverty in 2003 (http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/NEWS/0,,contentMDK:20095849~menuPK:34463~pagePK:34370~piPK:34424~theSitePK:4607,00.html)

* Profiles of the UNRWA camps: http://www.un.org/unrwa/refugees/camp-profiles.html

Strange idea of cosseted you've got there. You sound resentful of the aid they're getting.

And btw, the average Palestinian life expectancy is 72.3 yrs (http://www.moh.gov.ps/index.asp?deptid=0&pranchid=62&action=details&serial=350), hardly the highest in the arab world (http://www.overpopulation.com/faq/Health/mortality/life_expectancy/near_east.html).

The facts can be annoying, can't they.

"The facts can be annoying, can't they."

That's something you would know nothing about.People like you don't bother much with facts.

Have a closer look at Lataan's site just for a start. Here is a clear example of am antisemitic blog, with a strong fascist following masquerading as "leftist", and you have not the slightest compunction about commenting there. Is there a difference anymore?

You have your sources for facts. I have mine. I'm not an American but I would rely on the CIA over the UNRWA for efficacy any day of the week.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/we.html

Of course I believe that the Palestinians have legitimate and well overdue aspirations and greivances. It is who is responsible for this that I strongly disagree with you. The thugs who have been exploiting the Palestinian people for generations through corrupt and violently oppressive leadership and a number of Arab states who have used these people as a pawn.

Unless you can acknowledge this truth there ids no hope for these people. Blaming Israel and "Jews" may help certain political agenda but won't help the Palestinians. In the meantime it does no good at all to institutionalise poverty and refugee status. How much longer? Ten years? Twenty? Another century?

BTW. Carter would have to have been the worst, most ineffectual, dangerously weak US Pres in my lifetime. Have you forgotten the Iran Embassy Hostage crisis? Saddam's attack on Iran? Have you forgotten how low US (and your friends and allies such as my country Australia) morale sunk under that deadbeat excuse for a President?

Goeff, step back and look at what you've written. You insinuate that I am a racist and a nazi. You insinuate that I blame "Jews" for the Palestinians problems, even putting the word in quotes as though I used the word (if at all) in a derogatory way. And you criticize me for posting on a site that I stumbled upon. The post I commented on didn't sound like neonazi ramblings at all, and I don't apologize for posting there. I shouldn't have to. And I certainly won't be intimidated from visiting and ommenting on the site more.

You don't know anything about me, yet you have no compunction against making these offensive insinuations against me.

The Israeli/Palestinian situation is hardly black and white, and there are good arguments on both sides. To paint me as a bigot and a nazi for making statements, supported by facts, in favor of the Palestinian position, is pretty despicable.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

I intended no such insinuation. Read again what I have written. I have asked some questions of you. Frankly in the circumstances they are fair.

I take a particular interest in the overlap of "left" and "right" . Where the shouts from the streets from white supremicists, islamofascists and George Galloway style leftists are identical. It's fascinating how often they all yell about Jews and Israel.

I don't know anything about you. But I do know about Damian Lataan. In the unlikely event I visit this site much longer perhaps I'll show you some examples of what I'm talking about. Such as the time a post of Lataan's (attacking me as it happens) appeared on an US-based white supremicist racist hate site with neo-nazi links within three minutes of it first appearing on his own site.

I intended no such insinuation.

Bullshit. Have the courage to stand by your very deliberate smears.

What in hell does your 2nd para have to do with me and my post?

As for Lataan, you've really got me curious about him. Frankly, based on what I've seen you write so far, my guess is you've maligned him without cause or reason, just as you have me.

"Or perhaps you are in that mould too?"

That's a question. Not an insinuation. Are you? I'm still not sure.

"What in hell does your 2nd para have to do with me and my post?"

What? You mean this?

"I take a particular interest in the overlap of "left" and "right" . Where the shouts from the streets from white supremicists, islamofascists and George Galloway style leftists are identical. It's fascinating how often they all yell about Jews and Israel."

As far as I know it has nothing to do with you and your post. Does it? You tell me. It has a lot to do with Lataan and his blog and the type of commenter it attracts. You and your readers can check this out for themselves.

http://lataan.blogspot.com/

Do a little research. Pick a few posts at random over the last twelve months or so. Then reflect on how much time and effort you have put into supporting him and smearing me.

My question about you still stands. Why shouldn't it?

Geoff, you wouldn't be a wife beater and a child molester, would you? You tell me.

Until now, I've been giving you the benefit of the doubt. But you've made yourself clear - you smear me because I raise issues that you don't agee with, and you hide behind phrasing. You're dishonest and a coward. Those aren't questions.

Again, you should be ashamed of youself, but I think you're too far gone for that.

"you wouldn't be a wife beater and a child molester, would you?"

Hey mate. It's you who has been hanging around the grubby end of town after hours wearing a dirty raincoat. Like Lataan's joint. Not me.

"Growing up in the America of the 50s and early 60s, I had no doubt that America was not only the greatest of all nations, but that its well deserved supremacy among nations was assured far into the future.

"But a few decades later, there are troubling signs..."

Tell me. Which part of America of the fifties and sixties did you really get your rocks off over?

Macarthyism? Segregation? The oppression of women? The death toll of desperate kids seeking abortions from backyard operators with coat hangers? The KKK on the rampage and the lynchings and bombings of black churches and synagogues across the south? The Jim Crow laws and the disenfranching of minorities? The Korean war? The Vietnam war?

There was no glorious past, fella. Only a great nation doing the best it can and progressing slowly. Gradually getting better. Once the US had a segregated army. Could you imagine back in the fifties that one day the head of the military would be a black man? The secretary of state would be black? And a woman? The next President is likely to be a woman? And perhaps also black?

I'm no coward, fella. I've reached an age where I can say that with confidence. And I don't have a problem with the truth. I don't romanticise the US of the fifties and sixties. I don't imagine it was something it was not. I also don't throw up my hands in a fit of defeatest despair because the going gets a little tough. You?

It's horseshit to say the US is in decline when it is self-evidently a much better fairer place than it was in your "golden years" of the fifties and sixties.

You're right - I do romanticize the 50s and early 60s because I was a kid then. I could have sworn I mentioned that.

And right again, there was hatred in this country. Still is, but we're dealing with it better. But there's some manifestations of hatred we can't do much about, like the form yours takes, in bitter, venemous, and ANONYMOUS comments.

I'm glad to hear you claim you're not a coward. Let's find out. Either own up to the insinuations you made about me, without the weasel words, or retract them.

"in bitter, venemous, and ANONYMOUS comments."

Anthony Ioven

Let's get one thing straight at least. Who are you? Is this a real name?

I am quite happy to tell you who I am. I usually comment under my own name.

I may be a bit wary about an anonymous foreign site that for all I know could be a racist antisemitic America bashing hate site run by a neo nazi nut case. Afterall there's a lot of it around.

Like I said, there is a point where the "left" intersects with the lunatic "right". They look, talk and act the same and share the same delusions and bigotry. As far as I'm concerned, they are the same.

You talk of "insinuations". I'm insinuating nothing. I just read what I read is all. So far what I've read here causes me to have the gravest of concerns about you.

I'm glad to hear you claim you're not a coward. Let's find out. Either own up to the insinuations you made about me, without the weasel words, or retract them.

Challenge stands.

Not up to it? Seems to me all you're capable of is slinging shit. That's what haters do, Geoff.

"That's what haters do, Geoff"

Yeah. I've got to concede that's one subject you'd be an expert. I had a hope that perhaps you weren't just another Lataan type. Just a foolish liberal who stumbled into a place he or she knew little about.

I can now see I'm wasting my time here.

Goodbye and may G-d bless and guide America.

Here’s a classic example of Geoff Pahoff’s hate and extreme racism. He is referring to the targeted extrajudicial execution of the old, blind and wheelchair-bound spiritual leader of Hamas, Sheikh Ahmed Yassin:

“I celebrated wildly when that filthy bag of puss, ‘the old blind wheel-chair bound spiritual leader’ finally kissed what was left of his miserable fanny and did the world the enormous favour, albeit somewhat forced, of departing from it for all eternity. Thereby correcting a major anomaly in the order of things by being born in the first place. Or not drowned slowly at the first opportunity. The slimy ignorant lying slice of toxic shit.”

This is the quote that the liar Pahoff claims appeared on neo-Nazi sites ‘within three minutes’ after I’d posted his quote on my blog.
One can see why.

Pahoff's original quote can be found here:
http://kramgasse.typepad.com/harry_heidelberg/2006/07/america_hegemon.html#comment-19691619

Yes, I think Geoff's got some issues he needs to work through. I wonder if their are anger management classes designed specifically for blog commenters. ;-)

Sorry your comment took so long to appear. I've got anti-spam rules about URLs in comments, but they don't seem to work as advertised.